The conversation below occurred over a period of a few weeks, with an otherwise intelligent individual (We'll call him John Denier or John D. for short) who would obviously do anything to try and make himself believe that global warming was not a fact that we have to deal with.

I publish this transcript here in hopes that others can expand upon these arguments when faced with similar situations, as well as give me alternative, hopefully better ways of getting through to these people. Your comments are, as always, encouraged and appreciated.

This conversation started as an almost offhand comment he made at lunch about the "...big-lie that is global warming..." and continued into an email exchange. I suspect that the comment was intended to see if I would let him get away with it. As I have said in the past however, we have let the lies get away from us. We can no longer stand silently by while the right-wing nut-jobs propagate their deceit. It must be challenged wherever it is found, especially when the lies are said publicly.

My initial response to his assertion that it was all a "big-lie" was to ask for documentation, which he claimed existed, that showed that global warming was not our doing. He did not deny that there was much evidence that global warming was our fault; he just claimed there was plenty of evidence that "proves it isn't". The conversation continued in email...

• John D.

  Jeff, here is just one of many… http://www.al.com/news/huntsvilletimes/index.ssf?/base/news/1176974192195090.xml&coll=1 I agree, we all need to do our part to help reduce our footprint on the earth, but to jump to catastrophic overreactions will not be helpful especially to the people living in developing countries. Peace. jd

• Jeff F.

  Where is his study? Making unscientific jabs at legitimate research is not evidence; its conjecture, or worse, wishful thinking. Where is his research showing the absence of a correlation between humans and global warming? Besides, a "scientist" who is a vocal supporter of intelligent design (http://www.tcsdaily.com/article.aspx?id=080805I) has very little credibility with me. Please show me something based on research, not bought-and-paid-for opinion.

  Remember, what I said was that "100% of published, peer-reviewed studies show that global warming exists and we are the cause." You have shown me nothing that in any way refutes that. A few self-published articles on the subject does not make one an expert, even if he or she works for a major University.

  Making the planet unlivable would be far worse for people living in developing countries than any changes to environmental policy… Even minor changes to our environment, which have already happened, are causing very severe effects, in many cases involving people in those developing countries that you cite. If you really want to help them, help stop the drying-up of fresh water sources and the rising of the oceans that are going on right now. If you really want to help all of us, let's spend the little money we'll need to spend now on this problem before we have to spend orders-of-magnitude more in the future because we waited too long. An ounce of prevention…

  Just because we can't quantify the effect that global warming will have, cannot mean we turn a blind-eye to the problem. It is real and we caused it. We need to fix it… Please keep trying…

• John D.

  Jeff, when you have a full hour to available, please watch the following movie… http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4499562022478442170 This has the names, interviews, and commentary from the professors you want to discredit. As a matter of fact, several of the scientists/professors are a few of the first who were used by Margaret Thatcher's IPCC initiative to sway public into going nuclear (she forced the miners back to work- remember that? I do). Included is an interesting commentary from a co-founder of Greenpeace. Enjoy. jd

• Jeff F.

  I'll be happy to watch the video, but I won't support your case for you, you need to do that for yourself. If you feel the video has pointed out one or more legitimate scientists with studies that support your assertions, do the research and state your case. I believe that what you will find, at first contact with any actual research, is that these people are nothing more than Roy Spencer who you previously referenced. These are people who are using good, unrelated work in the past to establish credentials for an invented counter-argument to a real problem so they can cash-in on the corporate payouts.

  Understand something, it is very clear from your actions that you do not actually believe this garbage yourself. Do us all a favor and do the research, then try and support your case to yourself. If you do the groundwork, and you still feel the same way, then I'll be glad to look at it too. Convince yourself first, then convince me. What you'll find is that you can't convince yourself. You are a smart guy, you don't need me to play nanny for you.

• John D.

  So what you're saying is I shouldn't watch anything unless it's coming from Al Gore. Additionally, schools that mandate watching his movie should not view the other side of the story? I guess the same is true with Michael Moore.

  Come on Jeff, there are many previous scientist that were thought to have discovered this or that, while their peers disagreed with them only to find one side was completely wrong. So, why the hysteria to do one thing or another? Fear causes action which fuels budgets! Do you really trust governments that much? Have you ever worked for government?

  Watch the movie and understand why it is so important the public is being fooled. I want you to see and hear the scientists. We can discuss after, if you want.

  By the way, Roy Spencer is not in the movie.

• Jeff F.

  I'm saying, do your own research. Don't believe a movie, don't believe Al Gore, don't believe the government, and don't believe me. Find out for yourself!

  Question: Should people who say that the earth is flat get equal time in science class as those who believe the earth is round?

  Before you say it is an invalid comparison, be prepared to support that argument. I'm prepared to support that it is a valid comparison, because that is the case I've been making all along… If you would only do the research for yourself you would know it too.

  The corporations have much to gain by not spending any money to fix this problem and they are throwing all of their media influence behind the disinformation campaign trying to convince us that the problem isn't real. Who gains if the problem actually is real? You are asking me to not believe all legitimate scientists and instead believe the corporations and the media. No way, no how. I have done the research for myself and I know what is going on. If you look for yourself, you'll know too.

• John D.

  I have always doubted on my own. I didn't need a movie. It's too convenient to blame the industrial world, especially the west and deprive the developing countries their right to develop. You and I, I am sure, agree on many things regarding the conservation and respectful uses of natural resources. However, I think scare tactics by a UN body cannot be trusted.

  The movie confirmed what I had suspected. However, there are some things I didn't realize. Thatcher and Tri laterals want to enslave you and I. Bush is one of them. Greed is more important than our national health. But you already knew that, from a different prospective.

• Jeff F.

  So let me get this straight, you are claiming that global warming is some kind of scam by the UN for some unknown, obviously nefarious purpose, utilizing scientists the world over who are completely distinct and gain nothing from it, and you deny that the corporations, who control (own) the mass media and who have much to lose if this threat is widely known and understood, are simply looking out for their own interests by telling us that it is fake.

  It really sounds like you are saying "I know Global Warming is a fact, but I don't want to spend the money and time to do anything about it, and since I hate the UN, and they have issued warnings about the problem, I can just say I don't trust them and have an excuse for doing nothing. Then, when we really have to spend a lot more money down the road to fix a problem we could have prevented, we'll just blame the UN, saying it was their conservation efforts that prevented businesses from doing anything about it."

  I certainly agree that it is greed that is at issue here. Corporations putting profit over the nation, the world, and the people who inhabit them is unfortunately, not a new concept.

• John D.

  None of the scientists dispute the climate goes thru changes. The IPCC report has scientists' names on it who do not have anything to do with the report. They took upon themselves to add people for credibility. Watch the video, one scientist had to threaten to take legal action before they removed his name.

  What it comes down to is this. Yes, we are experiencing climate change. No, CO2 is not the cause. The change in solar spots on the sun is the cause (studies show this). The amount of water vapor(clouds) in the atmosphere is what traps the heat. I saw a study on PBS where temps were compared before and after 9/11. Temps were up by a significant factor across the nation when all the planes where grounded. I'm sure you see the moisture clouds trailing aircraft at high altitudes.

  CO2 levels trail the warming of the planet, it does not lead like Gore claims. See the historical records done by geological scientists (carbon dating). The source of CO2 is the oceans. Ocean temps response to environment factors takes hundreds even thousands of years to respond (i.e. level of CO2 release).

  Bottom line – nothing we can do. It's a natural cycle.

  Maybe I should start selling Global Warming apparel or lotion. I'll jump on the $$$ band wagon.

  We should have lunch sometime to discuss.

• Jeff F.

  Now we are starting to get somewhere…

  You cite studies that show the following:

  • The change in solar spots on the sun is the cause of global warming
  • Air traffic has an impact on temperature
  • CO2 increases are not a cause of global warming (but are actually a result of it?)

  (If I have misstated any of these, please correct me)

  Please show me these studies and let me see for myself (you'll forgive me if your claims are not enough to convince me). But first, you must read them for yourself and convince yourself of their validity. Watching a movie or show that mentions it is no substitute for actual research.

• John D.

  Yes, sure. As soon as I have time. Very busy.

That, of course, was the end of the conversation. John D. has since moved-on, I guess looking for a place to infect where his lies go unchallenged.